Transmission Fluid 1958-59-60

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Transmission Fluid 1958-59-60

Post by 59lincolnrag » Sun 9. May 2021, 06:25

Updated 6/13/2021 Rev A Added Service Bulletin 9 12 67

Trans Fluid 1958-59-60
(RE-printed author unknown)
From what I understand, Type A Suffix A was the original fluid and is hard to get.
Dextron III/ Mercon is used as its replacement.

Just the facts---
My 1960 service manual says "Type A, suffix A (B9L19A509) and the transmission needs 10.5 quarts capacity.
Power steering takes the same thing but only 2.7 PINTS

Introduction of the C6 in 1966 and the first place it shows up is Lincoln. The TWIN-TURBO COM is deleted. The FX and MX were retained for some FORD-MERC applications alongside the C4/C6.

The COM was redesigned again (made lighter and stronger) in 1967 (1968 actually) and was dubbed the FMX (F being FORD M being MERC [combination] X being dual range), coinciding with the introduction of ATF Spec M2C33-F . TYPE F fluid was then called out for service backfill for all Spec M2C33 (1961)

FORD made a running change starting in the mid-seventies to DEXRON (GM Trade Name) as they (FORD) changed their friction materials due mainly to environmental concerns (refer to -FORD TSB 01-15-7-)
I still wonder about this and I have come across sites and opinions that the references for those years have been completely lost.
But this makes sense as there was no definite fluid change over (other than TYPE "A"/TYPE "A" SUFFIX "A") until TYPE "F" became available in 1967. This has to be the answer.
M2C33 TYPE "F" is the correct backfill for all previous M2C33 callouts. While DEXRON use in a TYPE "F" transmission will cause damage, TYPE "F" backfill will not. In fact it improves shifting characteristics.
No, they are not incompatible per say but each needs to be used with the correct friction materials. The TYPE "F" fluid was formulated as FORD used friction materials in the newly designed FMX (1968 introduction) completely different than what any manufacturer had used to that point (to the best of my knowledge). It was also at that point TYPE "F" was recommended for retrofill on all earlier transmission models (FORD).

What confused me during all of these exchanges was the fact that FORD used the same PN on the fluid and carried it over to the new fluid. But engineering/marketing must have seen it as just a design progression rather than a completely new product (requiring a PN change). This is where all of the confusion among many was, I think.
Now TYPE "A", it's replacement TYPE "A" SUFFIX "A" and it's replacement DEXRON III cannot be used in a TYPE "F" specific transmission as the clutch materials will slip leading to failure. But TYPE "F" can be used in a DEXRON III application and as mentioned will give a more firm shift. This has been a practice amongst hot rodders for years. DO NOT USE TYPE "F" in a DEXRON transmission unless you want a more firm shift. This will be objectionable to most.

So the "final word" is...

You can top off a Type A trans using Type A fluid with Type F.
You should not put Type A fluid in a Type F trans.
You can use either Type F or Dexron in a new & flushed rebuilt trans regardless of what it used originally (even Type A). <-- this one I'm not sure about
You should not mix Type F and Dexron in any trans.

Only if rebuilt with organic friction materials and one understands the purpose of filling with TYPE "F" where DEXRON III/MERCON is called for...

TYPE "A" and TYPE "A" SUFFIX "A" are both outdated fluids. One should use DEXRON III/MERCON. They just plain do not offer the lubricity and detergent packages needed for today's driving style. It's like putting an old SD SAE 30 in you nicely overhauled 430...

DO NOT introduce any "A"/DEXRON III/MERCON into a TYPE "F" only trans. It does not contain the friction modifiers the friction materials need and will result in slippage.
But can you top off a Type A trans with Dexron?

Yes as it is the approved replacement...

Now at this juncture (and I am going to go through all of these posts as they contain important information throughout them), the M2C33 TYPE "F" is the FORD recommended refill for earlier M2C33 A,B,C,D called out specifications. I believe there is either a TSB or service reminder not to top off 61/ with TYPE "A" Suffix "A" (or the TYPE "A" it replaced) unless a small amount in an emergency.

I also have started collecting data on how to improve the older FOM/COM operation with update parts from the FMX. There is no reason to throw the old TWIN-TURBO (or earlier TURBO) as it can be modified (if desired) to perform as well as a C6.

Now all of this applies to approx. 1980 model year. Things got even more complicated after that.

DEXRON III/MERCON is the successor to TYPE "A" and TYPE "A" SUFFIX "A". The old fluids are obsolete. They were obsolete forty-five years ago.

TYPE "F" was not introduced until the 1968 model year. It seems no one has read my biblical thesis, "AND HE CAME DOWN FROM THE MOUNTAIN" found within the ATF Forum..

the TSB I finally found puts to rest (to me) the use of TYPE "F" fluid prior to the 1968 model year. It just simply was not available/released prior.
I need to make a progression chart (as enough here have shared enough info) as to the progression of TYPE "A", TYPE "A" SUFFIX "A", DEXRON (FORD went to it's use soon after GM introduction), TYPE "F" and the change where FORD went back to DEXRON (including H and CJ callouts).
FORD used TYPE "A" SUFFIX "A" and DEXRON to the 1968 model year. TYPE "F' was then used to about 1980 when they changed the friction materials and reverted back to DEXRON.
The only thing I am not completely sure of is the PS Fluid specifications prior to "F", whether it was DEXRON or a specific called out PS Fluid.

This is the trick. One can use TYPE "F" in applications calling out for DEXRON (and DEXRON is understood to be the replacement for earlier fluids TYPE "A"). DEXRON cannot be used on origional applications that specifically specified TYPE "F" unless that period transmission has been rebuilt using replacement organic friction materials. The only way one would find the origional asbestos based friction materials is if one came across a NOS rebuild kit or friction discs/bands.

1977 Lincoln Owners Manual
D7AZ-19582-A per ford Spec. M2C138-CJ
That's Dexron, isn't it?
Yes It Is...

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