More Engine ID Questions!

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mbailey
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More Engine ID Questions!

Post by mbailey » Mon 18. Jul 2011, 15:58

I'm trying to find some definitive information on identification of MEL engines, say 1958-1960. I don't even know where to look for the date code, part number, or whatever. I would like to confirm block, heads, intake manifold, etc.

Also, what is the process for machining/drilling for a pilot bearing at the end of a crankshaft? Can it be done on a completed engine (without removing the crank)? I'm very interested in putting a late-50's MEL in a hot rod, but I'd like to connect it to a 4-speed manual transmission. Seems like a LOT of MEL's were automatics. . . no pilot bearing!!

Thanks.

58-Pagoda
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Re: More Engine ID Questions!

Post by 58-Pagoda » Thu 21. Jul 2011, 09:29

See the following link- should work for date coding most engine components for 1958-1960. If you still have trouble, start posting part numbers and date codes for help.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=14&start=40

mbailey
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Re: More Engine ID Questions!

Post by mbailey » Thu 21. Jul 2011, 14:44

Thanks 58!

I was familiar with the link and had even copied it to my "files". Have also reviewed some of your prior posts; all good information.

I could not find any numbers where the link suggested, but here's some of what I found (many of these numbers are a bit unclear since the motor has been repainted):
5752001 and 80A:1 upside down on the passenger front side of block
Intake manifold 80 (circle with slash) F and EDG-9425-A
Driver's exhaust manifold BSEMS481A and :008 (maybe upside down)
Passenger's exhaust manifold B9EM9480P and upside down 80A
Water pump 5751588

This was advertised as a 1958 Lincoln 430 ci; I'm thinking it is probably a Mercury (granted, not much difference from Lincoln except valve covers) that ended up in a 1959 car and 383 ci. What do you think?

58-Pagoda
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Re: More Engine ID Questions!

Post by 58-Pagoda » Thu 21. Jul 2011, 21:41

From the numbers, it looks like you have a 1958 430 engine with castings in early to mid 10/1958. In 1958, there was a location change for the engine assembly date stamping.

See the following link download/file.php?id=1774&mode=view
then try to locate that number on the oil pan rail instead of the front of the block. To be consistent with everything else and confirm the engine is more or less intact, that number and date should be a few weeks after the individual casting dates below. I'm thinking anywhere from mid October to 3rd week in October 1958 for final assembly. That stamping should also start with a "T" for the Lima engine plant whereas the other numbers below lack that T letter.

The 80A on the block would translate to 58-Oct-1 (refer to the date code chart, 2nd#, 3rd#, and 1st Letter code).
The intake is dated 58-Oct-6
The exhaust manifolds are dated 58-Oct-1 and 58-Oct-14, but the B9EM is indicative of a 59 part number so perhaps they were early 59 castings that were installed on a late 58 engine. It's interesting to note that most B9 engine numbers are in the form of B9ME... a collector friend of mine who is into 1959 430 T-birds claims he's seen exhaust manifolds cast both ways as B9ME and B9EM (presumably a mistake). This seems to confirm his claim.

The water pump has me stumped for now. Are you sure the number is right? I show 5751589 as a compressor drive pulley so it seems unlikey that 5751588 would be a water pump number...

Also, my recollection is that 1959 engine blocks have the motor mounts shifted further to the rear of the engine as compared to 1958, although I don't know the exact measurement to tell. You can post the measurement to the bolt holes and I can check a 58 core engine I have to compare.

Here's some other ways to narrow down what you have:
-The 383 was a 2 barrel engine whereas I suspect your intake is 4 barrel based on the casting number.
-The 1959 430 engine would have used a b9ME casting code on the intake whereas 1958 430 Merc and Linc used the EDG casting number.
-There wasn't much, if any, internal and performance difference between a Merc / Linc 430 but one telltale sign is the exhaust manifolds. The Mercury used ram-horn type manifolds whereas the Lincoln used more of a log style with exhaust flowing out the rear of the manifold.

Comparing the date codes is an interesting exercise and will confirm if all components appear to be original to the engine within a reasonable 1-2 month time window. Once you id the assembly date of the engine and you know the block casting date and cylinder head casting dates, you can start figuring out what you're dealing with performance wise. I think you may have the most refined/driveable version of the 1958 430 which means (lower) 10:1 compression vs. 10.5, later style heads with slightly smaller valves, and refined cam which aimed to eliminate detonation issues of the earlier 1958 430.

Post the rest of the info when you get it as I'm curious exactly what you have.

mbailey
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Re: More Engine ID Questions!

Post by mbailey » Fri 22. Jul 2011, 09:30

WOW! Great information, and encouraging since the engine was advertised as a 430; the intake number somehow got me going toward the 383. You're right (and I should have pursued this), the intake IS a 4-barrel. I have not examined the carburetor closely, but it's supposed to be Autolite 1.12.

I'm off now to pick up wiper motor for my 91 Miata, but maybe I can run by my garage (my homeowners' code would not allow "classic" car parts in my backyard, so everything is at a "remote" location) and check for more information.

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Re: More Engine ID Questions!

Post by 58-Pagoda » Fri 22. Jul 2011, 11:49

I realized my mind lapsed and I'm wrong on the 383. It is 4-bbl and used the same intake as the 430, hence the EDG (383) part number on the intake which is common to 383 and 430 engines. you mention an autolite carb but the 430 had Holley 4bbl in 1958 and Carter 4bbl in 1959... so you may have a 383 afterall. The bore diameter is the same but stroke is longer for the 430. You could remove the oil pan and check the crank- it should be stamped EDJ for 430 on one of the counterweight surfaces.

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Re: More Engine ID Questions!

Post by mbailey » Fri 22. Jul 2011, 13:37

Well, dang. I was hoping for the 430, but this will be my hot rod engine, however it goes!

As I mentioned, the motor has been painted and some of the numbers are a bit difficult to make out. The water pump might be 5751568 and has another number, 8A (circle with horizontal slash) L, on the right side.

I don't know if I have passed this along, but there's a number on the rear of the block, just between the head and bell housing that says EG and 8016, as best I can read. The engine is sitting on TWO tires with the oil pan in the center. It's a bit difficult to check out anything around the pan, at least not safely -- this is one heck of a heavy motor!

The driver side exhaust header is a ram-horn design, but the passenger side exhaust has an exit more toward the rear (maybe not all the way behind the fourth cylinder on that bank).

It was hard to get a reference point for the motor mounts from the front of the motor. So, I measured from the rear and found it to be about 16.5" (from center of two vertically-oriented holes) on the driver's side and about 13.75" on the passenger side. I don't know the motor/car well enough to be sure these are for the motor mounts.

Most of my time has been spent on a 1967 Olds 442 the past several years. That motor is pretty well numbered with references that are pretty easy to come by. There are even "clocks" in the castings that tell what time of day or shift a part was produced on! Some of the circles with slashes (on the Mercury/Lincoln) look a bit like these clocks; a person only has to use a flat blade screwdriver to move the pointer to the correct time/shift! Of course, the 442 engine is almost a decade newer than the MEL.

Thanks for your consultations. I AM new at this and your help is very beneficial.

Mack

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