Today I got the T&D rockers installed on my SOHC. Here's a photo of the rockers on the engine:



Installation went without any problems, but lashing the valves did not. I started with #1 and went in order through the firing order. However, as I was lashing #6, I heard a "POP - tink tink tink" from the other side of the engine. I went back to the right side of the engine to check, and this is what I saw:



Yep, a broken adjuster. This reminded me of all the broken adjusters I had to suffer with my RAS SOHC rockers. For what it's worth, I can't recall ever breaking a normal FE wedge engine adjuster, and I've never broken any of the adjusters that came with my Dove SOHC rockers, either. But I'll bet I've broken over a dozen of the adjusters on the RAS rockers. I'm hoping that the T&D adjusters don't end up like the RAS ones. I don't think that I overtightened the adjuster nut, but I'm hoping its either that or maybe a single defective adjuster.

Fortunately, the Dove adjusters use the same thread size as the T&D adjusters, so I took a spare Dove adjuster and installed it in the T&D rocker:



After I finished lashing the valves cold, I fired the engine and warmed it up, then pulled the valve covers and re-lashed the valves hot. Then I re-assembled the engine and ran it another 10 minutes, to make sure everything was OK. I didn't hear any valvetrain noise, so hopefully all the remaining adjusters have survived.

Tomorrow I finally get to wring this engine out on the dyno. Should be a fun day. Hope that the fact that it's Pearl Harbor day tomorrow isn't a bad omen or anything

Jay Brown
1968 Shelby GT 500 Convertible, 492" 667 HP FE
1969 R code Mach 1, 490" supercharged FE, 9.35 @ 151.20, 2007 Drag Week Runner Up, Power Adder Big Block
2005 Ford GT, 2006 Drag Week Winner, 12.0 Daily Driver
1969 Ford Galaxie XL, 460 (Ho Hum....)
1964 Ford Galaxie 500, 510" SOHC

I cant wait to see what its going to pump out for power! I hope those BIG CI hold together LOL. Good luck and keep us posted. By the way.....Nice rocker set-up you got there!

"The Poor Mans 427"
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Wes Adams FORD428CJ
Built Ford Tuff With Good Ford Stuff
79 F-250 X-Cab 4x4 with a 6.9 Turbo Diesel
64 Falcon X-Ram 428
55 FORD Truck 4-link Rides on air with X-Ram 428
2000 Yamaha V-MAX VMOA#4277
2000 Yamaha 700 Mountain Max
2001 Polaris 600 Edge X
2001 Polaris 500 SP

Too bad you are stuck with doing product validation testing for T&D. My bet is that these rockers have never been run on an engine before.

I hope it's isolated and you have good results tomorrow. Best of luck!

- Bill

Sorry to hear that Jay - didn't expect to see that problem rear its ugly head again.



Since you don't think that you overtightened the adjuster nut, I've got to ask - is the torque spec of the adjuster screw jam nut 5/20 ft-lbs like it is on other T&D assemblies, or is it different on SOHC rockers?

But I'm sure I tightened it much less than 20 ft-lbs. I was using a dinky little 7/16 combination wrench, not a long one. But I didn't measure how much torque I used, either.

Jay Brown
1968 Shelby GT 500 Convertible, 492" 667 HP FE
1969 R code Mach 1, 490" supercharged FE, 9.35 @ 151.20, 2007 Drag Week Runner Up, Power Adder Big Block
2005 Ford GT, 2006 Drag Week Winner, 12.0 Daily Driver
1969 Ford Galaxie XL, 460 (Ho Hum....)
1964 Ford Galaxie 500, 510" SOHC

I wasn't sure if they'd somehow be different from the norm or not. I didn't necessarily think you'd gone over-zealous and used HAS(hard as sh!t) torque specs, but then again I do recall you saying the same sort of thing when you'd discussed the same problems with the other rockers. Little wrench or not, you know 20 ft-lbs is not that difficult to exceed. Silly as it may sound, you may want to check the torque settings on the remaining ones that haven't popped, to see how close or far off they truly are... maybe you just don't know your own strength...

hi guys
i am putting together one of paul monroes cammer kits together
his rockers are a sweet looking piece of work just as the rest as the rest of the kit
the rockers are 63 rockwell hardness on all parts of the rollers
the heads are heavy with a lot of extra metal put into the weak areas and improvement of the stock heads design
the heads have billet steel caps for the cams to sit in
the heads- intake-valve covers and timimg cover are cast and machine to perfection
i have fully polish all my alimuin parts and they came up like a mirror
paul has done the whole kit bar the water pump
and he is just release a few kits
i know he has a complete motor running for a year and half as a test mule with no problem
as i have been bugging him for my kit for that time and longer
but he would not sell the kits intill he have tested everything and was happy with it
in my opinion paul kit would be equal or better than any of the kits out there
the best part is that i didnot have to look for any parts other than a gasket kit and water pump
it is a dream come true to own a cammer
ps
i do not know how to post pics
hoping the motor will be built by feburay to put in my mach 1

Glad to hear a good report on Paul's kit. Where abouts are you located, (U.S.A or Australia)?

hi
i am in australia
thanks
barry

Jay How much room is in the valve cover from the top of the adjuster to the inside surface of the valve cover?? Gun drilling the hole in the center of the adjuster weakens it every time. Look where it snapped. I don't believe that you are King Kong and over tighten that adjuster. At this time before you start running this engine and possible have another issue with rockers Have either ARP or find a machine shop that will make an adjuster with a square top head. No drilling an internal hole. That Allen head will break off from the drilling being too deep over time. I wish you alot of luck with this motor. I am hoping for 840 with it running right. Anything onthe book?? Rick L

I would not fire that beast until all adjusters were replaced with something new from ARP or similar. If it is a manufacturing issue (raw material, heat treat), it is likely others in your motor are effetced, as you demonstrated with past experience. No way to tell though. What if you torqued each to 20% beyond as an individual screen prior to setting lash?

Thank you for pioneering and enduring the issues that small scale product development can't afford.

Can you post a good close-up of the fracture surface?

Wow! Looks beautiful sitting there. Too bad about the faulty adjusters. When I bought my Dove HD set up years back I found that I had a BUNCH of non-broached allen heads. When I went to set the valves, I'd try to stick the allen wrench in.....to no avail. Found a handful that weren't machined. Had to get a new handful from Dove to replace them. After 8 yrs, they still work perfect.

LarryK

1964 Galaxie 2dr 390/6-71/4spd
1964 Country Sedan Wagon 428/5spd
1969 F100 428/4spd
1967 F100 352/now a 4 spd!
1959 B Model Mack

Larry had a bad batch of adjusters that weren't heat treated up through the threads, or that he outsourced and got his from the same supplier that RAS used, but I'm not so sure. When you look at the pic it sure looks like it was a sheer right about at the thread point at the bottom of the adjuster nut - what you'd expect to be the weakest point.

Maybe given the SOHC adjuster design and dynamic stress differences the 5-20 ft-lbs spec Larry advises for his standard shaft design units doesn't apply, but since they're still gun-drilled and weaker by design than a solid nut adjuster version, the range may still fit given part quality and thread pitch tolerances.

Anyway, I've used FPP, Dove, and T&D - all using the allen-style insert and never problems with sheering the adjusters or the valves coming loose. I don't necessarily think you're the King Kong torque monster either, but I've never seen anyone have as many adjusters fail on them as you have - with slot design of the RAS, Dove allen and now T&Ds - right?

Maybe it's all about heat treatment, torque technique, or just plain bad luck, but one thing's certain - I'd definitely recheck all the adjusters before firing that beast thing off again...

The only adjusters I've ever broken, up until now, are the RAS adjusters.

I checked a couple of the adjusters this morning, and they were at 13 and 14 ft-lbs.

Go figure.

Jay Brown
1968 Shelby GT 500 Convertible, 492" 667 HP FE
1969 R code Mach 1, 490" supercharged FE, 9.35 @ 151.20, 2007 Drag Week Runner Up, Power Adder Big Block
2005 Ford GT, 2006 Drag Week Winner, 12.0 Daily Driver
1969 Ford Galaxie XL, 460 (Ho Hum....)
1964 Ford Galaxie 500, 510" SOHC

you might switch to your stash of Dove adjusters since his have been 'no problemo'. You can then chase the problem and still be able to run the engine. And I realize that you've probably already done the switch as I peck this note. But I sometimes don't see the obvious immediately.
KS

I would think that IF the adjuster was over tightend that the threads would strip before they broke, so, assuming a couple of things, the heat treat was done to the entire batch, not individualy, all the adjusters might have issues related to heat treatment. I would destruct one adjuster intentionaly checking the torque to do so, and checking to see if threads strip or if they snap off. There are a couple of bucks invested with that engine so I would be conservetive, RWJ

I didn't catch your Dove comment, and was thinking I'd recalled reading you'd popped the Doves too back during your testing and roller failure postings... Sorry I didn't go back and reread...

Anyway, I'm glad they all measured within torque spec, but real disappointed that you're still on the receiving end of these continuing failures... as I'm sure you are too! Hopefully Larry will be better able to provide some details and come to a quick resolution for you...

is a heat treat or material selection issue. You'll often note that the hard portion of a part keeps the black appearance, while the threaded portion has a copper color. Just like on a roller cam, they use the copper to mask the part desired to remain soft after heat treat - in this case the threads.

Sometimes a racer mentality is to make things "better" than they should be with stronger or harder alloys than the application truly requires....

This might just be a "miss" on the masking...

Barry Rabotnick
Survivalmotorsports.com

Barry writes:
"while the threaded portion has a copper color. Just like on a roller cam, they use the copper to mask the part desired to remain soft after heat treat - in this case the threads."

I always wondered why roller cams had that color. Learn something new.

the broken part of that adjuster would have went down inside the engine! LOL