We just bought a 1973, 36' Commander Tournament SF out of Seneca Ill. and had it trucked to Cincinnati, where I have it on the hard behind my machine shop. I plan to fully restore her over the next couple of years. I plan to repower her as well. I'm looking forward to it.

What are you looking to repower with?
What does it have for power now?

RE

I was 427 Fords. Diesels would be great, but $$$$. Trying to figure out what would be best for my mate and I

Diesels would always be nice, but from what I have experienced the 427s are solid. I have just bought a boat with 2300 hours and the engines are in place and running great. (one was rebuilt 4 years ago).

The original had compression ranging from 150-160, well within spec. Not bad for for a 35 year old engine.

There are a lot of urban legends abounding about the 427 Ford motors, but there are a few facts that are indesputable.

Fact: In 1963, 1964 and 1965 the 427 won 101 NASCAR races for FoMoCo, and GM won nine (9) in the same three year time frame.

Fact: The only boat motor in the era to have won LeMans (twice in two attempts).

Fact: The blocks on a 427 are more durable than other brands. This is true, the 427 used a higher grade of metalurgy, using the addition of phosporus to enhance the hardness (although the urban legend is they used nickle) Source: Dave Showeiler. There are instances of these motors being dismantled for rebuilding only to find the original hone marks still in the cylinder bores (Source: Steve Christ).

Fact: They are parts bin engineered for the marine application: yes indeed, the blocks are the royalty of the big block musclecar era, same as those used in racing, but the cranks are the very fine cast iron crank (same as the 390 FE), a rather low performance iron intake off the shelf from 352 and 390 automotive use, a truck camshaft for massive torque readings of 438 footpounds at 2900 rpm, and generally low compression pistons. The result is brilliant, one of THE very best gas marine engines of all time.

Good friend Todd Heinrich had 2700 hours on his immaculate 427 powered 38 Express, when he took his family on a 700 mile round trip cruise on Lake Michigan from South Haven to Drummond Island on Lake Huron, and back. When he sold the boat it brought top dollar, and for all we know the motors are still performing.

I never skimp on oil, I recommend using the best oil you can find. Presently I have the 15W50 Mobil-1 synthetic (Extended Service, with all the additives solid lifters and flat tappets need). I think the Amsoil Heavy Duty Marine/Diesel synthetic is also very good, possibly better, as it is top rated for diesel or gas marine use, with anti corrosion additives that help keep valve stems from rusting, etc.

Now for the question for you two new owners of 427-powered 36' Tournament Express models: Are your motors side-oilers or center-oilers? The side-oiler has three small plumbing plugs located on the PORT side (only) of the motor block, just above the big cross-bolts for those cross-bolted main bearings, the latter of which are just above the top lip of the oil pan. Inquiring minds want to know!

In addition, they sure attract a LOT of attention every time they bark under the tin shed marina at Commodore Yacht Club.

Regards,

Paul

Here is a vid of the Port engine starting.

Please excuse my videography skills.

When I found this boat for sale in Ill., I had to have it. I did not even sea trial it, I just knew it was all good. When I went up to get it ready to be trucked to Cincinnati, I ran it up and down Ill. river and it was nice. The sound is hard to beat.

I will check the blocks tomorrow. I did hear Cobra's had side oilers. Having side oilers is good?

Should I be concerned that the boat mechanic is saying the hydralic lifters are not pumping up on the CC 427s? Maybe he got that information from the on board computer of the 1973 36' SF?

I'm thinking I need to hurry up and get her down her so she can get some TLC from someone that cares.

Regardless, I am having them change the oil to 15-50 Mobile 1 Synthetic for the trip.... Hopefully this task will be straight forward...


Thoughts?

Reece

Yes, I would be very concerned. The setting procedure for hydraulics can cause you to bend pushrods if you try it on a solid lifter motor.

Paul

I have a good friend that bulids engines, that will be doing my work, but neither one of us know much about the Ford 427's. Does someone in the forum have good solid information for rebuilding them?

Thanks, I appericate all that info.
I just got all the fllor up and I can get a better look.

Welcome to the 36' SF/TF club! Reece just bought Fandango and here is my original post when I purchased my 36' in Feb:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/thread/1211424128/My+1974+36%27+Sports+Cruiser

I am remodeling the interior now with a settee up front on port...

What kind of shape is she in?... I assume she still has the FE 427s?
Details please!

Best Regards,

Jim
Seattle

Hello Glenn, and "WELCOME ABOARD". You have an attractive model, and a great foundation upon which to build and sink lots of time and money into! I bought our 38 Express in Cincinnatti, at Washington Marine, Beechmont area. The boat apparently ran the Ohio River for quite some time.

I wouldn't be too anxious to get rid of perfectly good machinery. I say that not knowing ANYTING about your boat, but generically, there have been a whole lot of re-power jobs that represent "because I want to" instead of "because I had to" or "because it was the right thing to do". The basic rotating equipment and blocks are one thing, and all the ancillary equipment that makes a boat seem like it may need a repower are another thing. Even the best maintained motors can run like crap, and look like crap externally if they are not cared for. It's the internal condition we're concerned about, and we all hope our previous owners used good oil, and changed it frequently.

My 427 powered Express is a good example. Upon acquiring it going on 15 years ago now, one look at the 427 motors and I thought to myself, "ohh brother, these will need to come out". One of those motors had zero compression (valve set way too tight) and yes, I had missing sputtering and all the symptoms that made we yearn for the uncomplicated life with new motors. However, those motors are still running extremely well today, many years later, and all they really needed was a good tune up and general care.

You may have heard the story about the marina who talked the new widow into pulling out her recently lost husband's revered 427 motors because they were old. The marina probably sold those motors for a nice profit, and then charged her full price for the new ones too, and in some cases the new ones are not as good as the ones that came out of the boat. Sad but true.

So in my welcome to you, I'm just offering a bit of hope, that you will not really have to sink all that money and time in a repower job, whatever you may have in the boat at the time. I know guys who have done it, numerous times, but the cost and the hassle are always more than anticipated or denoted by the sales people.

Cheers! And yes, please do send photos, either upload em yourself and past the "direct link" here on the forum, or send em to me at chriscraftcommander@hotmail.com and I'll post em for you.

Regards,

Paul

The comment about the boat being a good foundation into which you can sink lots of time and money, is a good thing. It is a good thing that the boat is a Chris Craft hull of the era that is WORTHY of a restoration, because spending money and precious time on this earth on a lesser boat (many brands come to mind) is often a very bad idea financially. At least on a Commander, you will know the style, build quality, and to an extent the value of the boat will remain strong (as strong as just about any other model, give or take a Hatteras or two). This allows the enthusiast like you and me, to get ahold of a solid boat needing attention, put some sweat equity into it and some cash, and end up with something we can be proud of, and someting that if purchased new on the market today would be pushing $200,000 to $400,000 or perhaps more.

Commander ownership on every level allows the owner to experience a high level of style and performance, generally avoiding comparable costs of newer boats, and still being able to sell and recover "much" of his cost later.

We must realize these boats are actually more durable than we are, to a large extent. Many have outlived their owners, and most have been passed down from one owner to another, having allready had a life or two of their own. Most of them will live on for many years into the future. Due to the classic nature of the boats, and the fact that they were so well designed and built in their own special era, there is a responsibility for owners to keep their boats in good condition (and as generally tastefully original as possible). I have seen many very nice modifications, and a couple horrible customizations along the way, but most mods are in keeping with the lines of the boat and the original design/functional philosophy. My own boat has an upgraded galley, for instance, and we tried very hard to keep it from looking like a TV make-over project, an keep it looking as though it was done in the same period as the boat. My galley renovation was partially out of necessity, but I suppose I could have worked harder to keep it original. In the end, the best boats are those in pristine original condition.

The Commander movement is strong in this country, thanks to contributors who post here, and people like Matt O'Donnell and Tim Toth, the proof being illustrated in the photo below (the world's largest gathering of Chris Craft Commanders, ever, last August, at Huron, Ohio, on Lake Erie).




The quality of the boats was very strong, and it is a motivation for all of us to "keep the faith" and make those improvements on our boats. For instance, Janet saw so much nice chrome, that I am now required to remove all of my helm chrome and have it redone. It is servicable now, but it looks shabby when compared to some of the boats at the Rendezvous. That is one way the quality of the breed is actually getting better as time goes on, thanks to people like you who take on project boats, and people like the rest of the contributors here on The Forum who buy good boats and maintain them to a high standard, buy shabby boats like I did and bring them up a notch or more, or those real heros who buy boats that might otherwise be scrapped and then bring them back to spectacular standards.

If you're going classic fiberglass, it is hard to beat a Commander. Your particular model is a very good one, it should be a lot of fun for you to work on if you love working on boats as I do, and it should also give you a lot of service once you get it in the water. Look through the Master Index here on The Forum, check out the restoration section. This is not a social club or chat line, although we do have our own brand of social interaction, it is first and foremost a "hands-on Forum", with lots of "hands-on experience" and historical/technical information being shared by people who "can do". You'll see some projects that were huge problems to solve, that ended with spectacular results.

I am working on a new "Hall of Fame" to showcase those individuals who have done the near impossible, with their major or expertly done restorations. Here is one such example shown below (one of many showcased here on The Forum).


This is Dave and Lily Varnadore's boat. They purchased it after it sank at the docks under the ownership of a previous owner. As you can see, Dave had his work cut out for him, as did Jerry Namken and Don Hancock, just to name two more (there are many others). Dave and Lily's boat, MISS LILY, is now a beautifully restored Commander that can proudly dock next to anything.

We look forward to seeing your own project added here, knowing it will be beamed around the world and shared with others who may be motivated to follow some day. You're at the right place too, we'll help you any way we can!

Cheers, enjoy the journey!


Paul

FXA-39-3004-R
1966 38 Express
427 Power

Glenn,

The 36 is an awesome boat any way you look at it, but seeing one out of the water like this just reinforces the notion that it is one tough bruiser of a wave-buster.

Looks like you have a great project ahead of you.

Congratulations ! Looks like my kind of fun.

Regards,

Paul

OK,



I knew I have seen that pic before.





36' Tournament Fisherman
Model years: 1973
Serial numbers: FFA-36-xxx
Number of hulls built: 2
Number registered in CCCC:

Comments:
Rare Commander with only two built. Similar to the 36' Sports Cruiser.




Now, I know of 3 1973 36' SF on this forum. Is this information accurate that only 2 were made in 1973?


Thanks

RE

















































.

No there were more than 2 made in 73 but there were only 2 FFA-36-xxx models made according to the essential guide the others were FDA-36-xxx.

I was wondering about that.

What are the differences between the FFA and the FDA? FANDANGO is a FDA-0052-H

These just changed the letters is all. The boats did evolve through their run, one big cahnge was a better oriented flybridge.

Kevin

The hull letters are FDA-36-039. When I first was her though, she looked different. I have the The Essential Guide and the first thing I did was look to see if I had spotted a rare FFA. She still looks different.
Where or why did the stern rails and side guide wire orginate from. I haven't seen anything like it on any of Chris Craft Commander SF

Same one with the frontal headlights, and looking solid and sound too. As projects go, from waht I can see here, you have a great start. How far are you from the water? Just wondering if you are able to reinstall the flybridge on your yard there, or whether you will have to transport it before you can reasseblme things. What kind of mechanicals do you have? Got pictures?


Tom

Thanks! She is sweet.
Our shop is about 12 miles from the Ohio River.
I am keeping all my opinions open with getting the Bridge back on when I ready.
It has a pair of very tired, but good looking 427's

I can promise you, that you can NOT tell the condition of the motors by looking at them. Have you run em? Or are you making the call based on the hour meter, or previous owner, just curious.

They DO certainly wear out, as all machines eventually do, but I wouldn't automatically count them out. Many an engine has been diagnosed "bad" only to find it was some of the simple ancillary stuff causing the problem. I'd hate to see you go through the cost and agony of a rebuild if the motors just needed a proper tune up or even a pair of rebuilt cylinder heads. As you may have heard, one of mine had zero compression in one cylinder due to SOMEONE (previous owner or his ace mechanic) having a rocker adjustment so tight the valve was not closing. The motor ran reasonably well too, but sure runs a lot better on all 8, as it has continued to do for almost 15 years now.

We HAVE the technology to assist with those motors if you elect to give it a try.

regards,

Paul

Now that I have all the flooring up I can do a compression check.
What kind of GPM can I except?

Here is a thread titled "Fuel consumption with the big block engines" that I think you'll find of interest.
Lots of good data here.
Generally, any motor big enough to push a boat at a given speed, is going to have very similar consumption to it's equivalent.
The new big blocks with fuel injection are impressive, but it's going to be quite a while for that efficiency to pay back the difference.
As with diesel, same thing, tough to justify on a Commander this size unless you have the cash and just want to do it, which is a valid reason to do it, but it's not financially justifiable to most situations. Diesels are best used constantly, kept warm and on the run, lots of maintenance, and it's somewhat of a myth about the benefits in a boat this size.

In any case, here's a good thread with some info you'll find of interest.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/message/1150656733

regards,

Paul

Does anyone have diesel consumption data they would like to share?

It took years of looking but I finally got my commander. She is a 73 36' SF out of Alabama. I could never imagine looking at anything other than a Commander. I'm very new to the 427's or any large engines so this forum will be a huge plus! Should I be looking to do anything different with the FWC 427's after I mover her down to New Orleans? I'll try to send pictures soon. Thanks Corey

ohh boy, there's a run on the 36 ! Four of em have been bought/sold very recently, and I can see why. For open salt water use or on the big lakes, the solidly built hulls are just the ticket, and their stylish functionality will make you a hit around the marina too. Every time you fire up those big Fords and depart the marina, people are going to stand and watch (and listen).

When you get em, send photos! Take your camera on the cruise from Alabama to New Orleans!

The heat exchanger cooled big blocks have a reputation for overheating, and it's not NECESSARILY a design flaw as much as it is, the system is operating on the margin, and when there is a blockage, or an impeller, or water pump cam, or suction-closed-hose, whatever, they tend to overheat. You'll need to keep an eye on this, and if you see overheating easiest thing is to slow down. Once sorted out, you SHOULD be able to run reliably. After all, if the engines have lasted this long, they've been properly used and cooled.

You can convert the contact points to the popular Pertronix ignition system, but if you do be sure to keep a spare set on board, as they can go bad like any other electronic part. If you run original contact points be sure to have a full set of points and condenser. Whatever you do, be sure to have a pair of the right crab caps on board because you would not believe the difference a good cap can make if you have an old one with carbon tracks. Be sure you use the proper gasket when replacing the cap, because some need it and some don't, and I guess it depends on the brand of cap and rotor, otherwise the top of the rotor can scrape the underside of the cap (been there, done that).

Hope the boat is everything you hope it will be, and more.

regards,

Paul

Corey,

This forum is full of great folks that know all about these engines. They are great resources for everything, even geometry!

I am in the process of Buying a 1973 36' SF and should be bringing her home soon. (~250 miles via Tennesse and Cumberland River)

Congrats!

RE

This is great news. I am glad to see new owners popping up seemingly out of no where. This froum is just the place for ya'all to find out anything you want to know. Alot of us have different styles and models of Commander, but the data base here covers about all of them. Congats on your new boat. Share all the fun with us. The photo sharing here is as easy as pie!

Chris

I just bought a 73, 36 SF also, and I 'm like you, they are a very good looking and interesting looking vessels.















































. edit comment: got that typo !