I needed that 462 shot desperately!

Excerpt From Previous Post;

HAWKROD

"The 61 is a one year only design and may be somewhere between the two or like one or the other. If anybody has a 61 block or a 62-65 block and can send me a picture or post it here it would be great as I could compare from pictures alone."

How did you come to the conclusion the 61 block is unique? I have been going on the premise (of late) that the pattern was the same from 61/65. I do not have the convenience of the 60/64 LINC-MERC MPC but the 65/72 MPC does show a service block change in 1964 (C4VY 6010-A). Does your MPC show additional part nos. from 1961 to 1963?

Are you going to put an early MX behind the 430 in your BIRD?

I used the various MPC's in looking for this info and the 61 uses a C1VY block and bellhousing and 62-65 use C2VY and later parts (the C2VY bellhousing was used 62-65 so I know the blocks had the same pattern). I need the bellhousing to put a 462 in my 60 Lincoln. Hawkrod

Hawkrod

39 Ford Deluxe Coupe
59 Tbird 430
60 Lincoln Premier
(2)62 Tbirds
(3)68 Cougar XR7-G's
69 Cougar 428CJ 4 speed
77 1/2 Ford F250 4X4 w/460 swap
86 SVO mustang
76 F250 Crew Cab
1969 Mach I
look at my cars past and present at superford!

That is one of the most informative posts that Ive ever seen on this forum. Pix worth a thousand words. By the way, Im aka gary477, I had previously registered as gary534 before registering as gary477, but lost slip of paper with password, which I just found. Im gary534 on several other Ford forums, easier for me to have same username on all these forums.

My 63 block is identical to my 61 block. The early FE bellhousing bolts on, but the starter will not line up. So, therefore, I think that the 61 thru 63 at least are the same.

a 61 block is a C1VE block and a 62/3 block is a C2VE so they changed something but I'll be danged if I know what it is! I will have to buy one of each and look them over side by side to see if I can find the difference. The Ford parts book says they are not interchangeable so it muct be something good! Hawkrod

Hawkrod

39 Ford Deluxe Coupe
59 Tbird 430
60 Lincoln Premier
(2)62 Tbirds
(3)68 Cougar XR7-G's
69 Cougar 428CJ 4 speed
77 1/2 Ford F250 4X4 w/460 swap
86 SVO mustang
76 F250 Crew Cab
1969 Mach I
look at my cars past and present at superford!

The C represents the decade and the 1, 2, 3 etc, represents the year model, therefore C1 = 61 and C2 = 62 and C3 = 63 and so on. To my knowledge the 61, 62, 63 and 64 and maybe the 65 blocks (430, not 462) were all the same. The big difference bewteen the 59 to 60 and the 61 to 65 was:

1) The bolt pattern on the bellhousing (the early had the FE)
2) The cam bearings (the early ones were all the same size)
3) The main bearings (the early ones had only one tab)
4) The compression ratio change through out the various years after 60. But this was done by the heads and the pistons, not the block.

Hope this helps some.

The numbers do not denote the year a part was used, only the year it was designed. The C1VY block was new for 1961 and was different from the previous block. The C2VY block was new for 62 and was different than the C1VY. The C2VY block was used until 64 when the C4VY block came out and then they changed again in 66. What this means is there is no such thing as a C3VY or a C5VY block because there were no changes those years. For example, a C2VY and a C4VY block are actually the same but a C4VE has an extra slot for bearing tabs and uses water divertors so it got a new number. There is a difference between 61 and 62 blocks or Ford would not have changed the number. Also note that a 61 bellhousing is a 61 only part but the 62 bellhousing fits 62-65 which make me think the change was in the bellhousing area (but that is pure speculation). Please note that the numbers I used end in Y as they are part numbers not casting numbers. A casting number may correlate to a part number but they do not always. You can actually have two parts with the same casting number that are not actually interchangeable due to the finish machining which can change the parts. For example, two cylinder heads may have a casting number of C8AE-6049-H, one head may have a 14 bolt exhaust bolt pattern and carry a C8OZ-6049-A part number while the other has an eight bolt exhaust bolt pattern and carries a C8AE-6049-R part number. If you simply identified the part by the number on it you could really screw up. This of course brings up another samll bit of trivia, Ford replacement parts (and Ford parts used on a L/M product) have a Z in the fourth position which denotes "Ford replacement parts" and Lincoln Mercury uses a Y in the fourth spot to denote "L/M replacment parts"! Hawkrod

Hawkrod

39 Ford Deluxe Coupe
59 Tbird 430
60 Lincoln Premier
(2)62 Tbirds
(3)68 Cougar XR7-G's
69 Cougar 428CJ 4 speed
77 1/2 Ford F250 4X4 w/460 swap
86 SVO mustang
76 F250 Crew Cab
1969 Mach I
look at my cars past and present at superford!

I have to bow to your knowledge since it seems to come from Ford records, books and manuals. All my knowledge is based upon use of the engines and it was a very long time ago. There may have been many changes in the cosmetics of the engine to suit frames design, etc that I never knew about or bothered me. I raced these engines from 1959 to 1965 and used more of the early stuff than the newer stuff. Thansk for the up-date.

1961 Bell From 1961 Shop Manual;



1962 Bell (Installed) 1962 LINC;



1964 Bell (Installed W/Convertor);



1961 430 2V End First Shot (On Stand)



1961 430 2V End Second Shot (Starter Position);



462 End Shot (HAWKROD);



This will give some comparison. All were contributed by members of the LCOC BOARD.

HAWKROD,

I have some 60/64 MPC pages being sent to me only listing 6010 CIVE and C4VY. It must be from a later edition than yours. I will post it when I get them.

Later copies will only show the C1VY and C4VY because the C4VY service any 62-65 engine so the C2VY was no longer needed. The C1VY is not serviced by any other so it continued being available. The pictures do look like the C1VY may have the same pattern as the C4VY but it is hard to tell without dimensions. Hawkrod

Hawkrod

39 Ford Deluxe Coupe
59 Tbird 430
60 Lincoln Premier
(2)62 Tbirds
(3)68 Cougar XR7-G's
69 Cougar 428CJ 4 speed
77 1/2 Ford F250 4X4 w/460 swap
86 SVO mustang
76 F250 Crew Cab
1969 Mach I
look at my cars past and present at superford!

Pete (norgale- LCOC) was kind enough to supply photos of the 60 and 61 MEL bell housing and they show as thus;

1960 430 Bell Housing (COMP 7976-A)

Engine Face;


Main Case Face;

1961 430 Bell Housing (C1MP 7976-E)

Engine Face;


Main Case Face;