The below are earlier postings;
Incorrect information
August 4 2003 at 10:34 PM
Jim (Login 58mercmaniac)
Response to Brief Rundown of MEL Engine Series
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The application of the "Marauder" designation only applied to 383 and 430 cubic inch Mercury automobiles. The site referred to in the post has taken information from a Motor's Repair Manual and missinterpreted with respect to a 312 hp version of the MEL block in '58 Mercury production. All 383's were 330 hp. The 312 reference in the Motor's manual recognized the 312 "Y" block as a base engine offered in Metalist models only (a very striped down basic version of the '58 Mercury). Very few Metalist models were produced and a '58 Merc with a 312 "Y" block would indeed be a rare, but worthless, item today if any have survived.
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I Have Reference For Two 383's For 1958
August 6 2003 at 5:26 PM
KULTULZ (Login KULTULZ)
Response to Incorrect information
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There were two 383 MARAUDER engines in 1958.
The first was the MONTEREY 312HP@4600RPM
The second was the MONTCLAIR 330HP@4800RPM
The MEDALIST was a 312 (Y-Block) rated 235HP@4600RPM
I suppose the two ratings were offered for the two different trim levels, much as the EDSEL E-400 (FE) was installed in the one based on the FORD platform and the E-475 installed in the one based on the MERCURY platform.
The Marauder 430 was installed in the PARK LANE and later the TURNPIKE CRUISER.
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'58 383 rated at 312 hp
August 6 2003 at 10:32 PM
(Login 58mercmaniac)
Response to I Have Reference For Two 383's For 1958
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If anyone has an official publicaton from the MEL Division of Ford Motor Company that reflects a 312 hp 383 I'd sure like to know its publication date. I have every official manual published by the MEL Division in 1957 and 1958 covering '58 Mercs and Lincolns along with about a foot high stack of service bulletins that cover 383 and 430 MEL engines and engine specifications. Absolutely no where is there even a hint of a reference to a 312 hp version of the 383 engine.
As I said in my original post I am familiar, in fact have two, Motor's Auto Repair Manuals (one dated 1962 and another dated 1965) which indicate a 312 something was put in a '58 Merc. Whatever they were referring to accurately or inaccurately was not a 312 hp MEL block engine.
About the only way a 383 with a 4.300 bore and 3.200 stroke might be reduced by a scant 18 hp to 312 hp would be to change the carburetor to a 2bbl which would make no sense on an engine with 10.5:1 compression (yeah, I know in some references the compression for a 383 is shown to be 10.0:1). Not even the MEL Division could make up its mind on the published compression of a 383 for the few years it was produced.
No 2bbl was ever placed on any MEL block used in a '58 Mercury. They all got a Holley List #1849 4bbl, single metering block and power valve, and vacuum secondary; identified by Ford as Ford type 4150, a generic sort of thing with Ford identifying certain types of 4bbl carbs. First those made by Holley and in more recent years even Autolite and Motorcraft 4bbl carbs got the 4150 designation.
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Specmanship on the part of the MEL Division
August 6 2003 at 10:57 PM
58mercmaniac (Login 58mercmaniac)
Response to I Have Reference For Two 383's For 1958
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If you look at the rpm at which the hp ratings were claimed you will see the 312 hp rating is at 200 rpm less. Enough rpm reduction in the HP curve to make a 330 hp 383 look like a 312 hp 383. However, I have no official service manual or service bulletin publication from the MEL Division that makes any reference to any 312 hp version of a 383. Maybe sales lit might indicate a 312 hp version, but not the manuals.
They played virtually the same game with the 430 by giving it a 360 hp rating in a Mercury at a test rpm lower than Lincoln which was rated at 375 hp. Yet one cannot find one shread of actual specification difference that would lead to a reason for a true difference in the hp rating between the two applications.
In the case of the 430's differences the exhaust manifolds used on the Merc verses the Lincoln should have given the Merc version a higher hp rating. The Merc manifolds were big collector type with a center flange for connecting to the exhaust pipe whereas Lincolns had a more restrictive straight out the back manifold.
Yep, a lot of "specmanship" was going on. Probably at the hands of the sales/marketing group who apparently failed to tell engineering there was more than one hp rating for the 383 and 430.
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Advertised Horsepower
August 7 2003 at 3:45 AM
KULTULZ (Login KULTULZ)
Response to Specmanship on the part of the MEL Division
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"If you look at the rpm at which the hp ratings were claimed you will see the 312 hp rating is at 200 rpm less. Enough rpm reduction in the HP curve to make a 330 hp 383 look like a 312 hp 383."
I think you may have the answer here. The 430 had different HP ratings between LINC, MERC and FORD applications, even though the J code BIRD engine came off the same assembly line as the LINCOLN.
I have a 1958 MERCURY ADVANCE MAINTENACE MANUAL (Oct. 57) that states in the engine(s) descriptions;
"The Marauder engine for Monterey and Montclair" and goes on to describe further the specs on the 383.
I also have a 1958 MERCURY MAINTENACE MANUAL (Jul 58) that states;
"The MARAUDER engines for Monterey and Montclair..." and goes on to describe further the specs on the 383.
Were there actually two different ratings offered as to impress the new car buyer when he bought a fancier MERCURY or was it just a gimmick by taking the HP rating at different RPM's?
If the differences (if any) weren't mentioned in any service literature and/or bulletins, then a search in the MASTER PARTS CATALOG and sales material of the period may answer the question.
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Engine Description 383 cu. in. EDG
The MARAUDER engines for MONTEREY and MONTCLAIR series vehicles are an eight cylinder valve-in-head ninety degree "V" -type which has a displacement of 383 cubic inches using a 4.300" bore and 33300" stroke. The compression ratio is 10.0 to 1.
The above is from the 1958 MERCURY Maintenance Manual. Where the two different ratings are described is found within the FUEL section of the manual. The cylinder heads, pistons and camshaft appear to be the same for both (one would have to review parts literature to ascertain a difference here).
It goes onto say in the FUEL section (and I stumbled across this by accident);
CARB 4100
The letters EDG A or EDG B are stamped on the left side of the main body near the accelerator pump. EDG A identifies the FORD carburetor to be used with the 383ci engine (Low Torque) and automatic transmission. EDG B identifies the FORD carburetor to be used with the 383 ci engine (High Torque) and automatic transmission.
Low Torque Venturi Size
Primary 1 1/16" Secondary 1 3/16"
Main Metering Jet Identification 0-5000ft #50
Secondary Metering Jet Identification 0-5000ft #66
High Torque Venturi Size
Primary 1 3/16" Secondary 1 1/4"
Main Metering Jet Identification 0-5000ft #58
Secondary Metering Jet 0-5000ft #67
It goes on to give the calibration of the short bowl HOLLEY's also used that year. Again a smaller one for the Low Torque engine, a larger one for the High Torque engine and a even larger for the 430 EDJ engine.
So, the two different 383 ratings are determined by carburetor size and which series they were installed in.
