ROSS Pistons still advertises pistons for the 430

"Ford 272, 292, 312, 332, 352, 360, 390, 400, 406, 410, 427, 428, 429, 430, 460 Thru 4.420 Bore"

Flat Top
30-10
$615.60

Dome Top
30-20
$726.24

Reverse Do
30-32
$726.24


"Ford 429, 430, 460, 4.437 Bore & Larger"

Flat Top
30-101
$646.32

Dome Top
30-201
$757.76

Reverse Do
30-321
$757.76

http://www.rosspistons.com/

Now, the price to me doesn't seem too extreme to do what I want with one which is to set a MEL into a street custom.

Lincoln Parts International; I assume these are only stock replacements...

Engine, Transmission & Drive Train

ENGINE PARTS 430/462
Pistons (430 engine) 1958-65 420.00/set
Set Pistons (462 engine) 1966-68 450.00/set

http://www.pe.net/~lincprts/engine.htm

I would imagine one would have to cc the combustion chambers and all to arrive at a suitable street compression ratio as most of this knowledge has most likely been forgotten. Another problem with the MEL was camshaft hardness. There were a lot of failures and upgrades it seems. You would have to find someone willing to grind you a custom cam on hardened billet. Not cheap either.

A set of custom aluminum rods and some serious FE valvetrain retrofit, along with upgraded carburetion/fuel injection and you should have one heck of a street monster.



If I can't find a machine shop that specializes in MEL, I will most likely have a set of custom honing plates made also.

I am a detail freak.

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.....I think the bore & honing plate is a very good idea. I placed two custom orders a couple of years ago and they were about 300 bucks each. But they were out of steel instead of aluminium and about 3-4" thick.
My mashinist reported that some 429 engines just didn't keep the roundness if not bored w. a plate and you can bet that he' got a sharp eye on things.

Theo
The man with the bad memory (Germany)
All stock 62 T-Bird, with resto-mod style engine bay. Mildly warmed up 390.
birds@freenet.de
Check out The (MEL) 383, 410, 430, 462 Engine Forum at http://www.network54.com/Forum/257364

If I cannot find a large machine shop in this area that has the experience and tooling necessary to set one up properly, that I will contact Holman-Moody in Charlotte and load it up and run it down there. I would imagine that they are still equipped for them.

I once called Lee Moody to talk this and that and he seemed to be a little tired and IMO a bit backwarded too. He wouldn't accept that roller rockers had made their place in the race world for a good reason. The fact that they could brake their needles and so on was enough not to take them into consideration for a serious race engine. That's actually an attitude that I like to some extend.
Anyway I'm glad to see them still in business and I wonder what the main activities are about in this century. I'm in a great favour of having you drop in and check out the shop LOL.
Best whishes to Lee and let us now if the shop covers what the site promises.
Curious Theo

Theo
The man with the bad memory (Germany)
All stock 62 T-Bird, with resto-mod style engine bay. Mildly warmed up 390.
birds@freenet.de
Check out The (MEL) 383, 410, 430, 462 Engine Forum at http://www.network54.com/Forum/257364

"Mechanical Restorations

Specializing in Ford powered racing cars, Holman Moody offers complete mechanical restorations including chassis, suspension, drivetrain, and engine building services. The customer can specify any level of mechanical restoration, from an engine rebuild to the complete mechanical restoration described above. The craftsmen at Holman Moody have many years of experience in race car building and preparation. Call Lee Holman for more information."

"Specialized Engine Building

Hot street to NASCAR Winston Cup engines. Drag racing to endurance racing. Holman Moody can build an engine to meet your needs. Custom camshaft grinds available, or you can choose one of the many factory grinds."

I can only assume that they can still do a MEL. I think I will take some time off soon and go to CHARLOTTE and see if they allow a look-see.

I hate to bother the guy until I actually have all the pieces and information I need. Have you ever been to the States? They are kind of laid back in NC.

.....and NY was only changing jet liners. Never been in NC, but I heard that it's a poor state comp. to the other states. Do you live close to Charlotte? Wouldn't it be more economical to spend the extra $ on a plate? Anyway, good luck w. your project and keep us updated to


Theo
The man with the bad memory (Germany)
All stock 62 T-Bird, with resto-mod style engine bay. Mildly warmed up 390.
birds@freenet.de
Check out The (MEL) 383, 410, 430, 462 Engine Forum at http://www.network54.com/Forum/257364

Right outside of Washington, DC. For the most part, NC is a fairly wealthy state...the people are just a little laid back (I lived there for about seven years).

It is difficult to find a machine shop you can trust with a current engine, much less something like a MEL. I will gladly pay for experience and knowledge.

....Good to see that I'm not the only crazy guy in the hobby. Some buddy was suspecting me to be some sort of German paranoid neurosic w. that aim for working precise LOL. But it's more simple, just don't have the $$ and nerves to do things twice.

Theo
The man with the bad memory (Germany)
All stock 62 T-Bird, with resto-mod style engine bay. Mildly warmed up 390.
birds@freenet.de
Check out The (MEL) 383, 410, 430, 462 Engine Forum at http://www.network54.com/Forum/257364

And really only have the time for one more nice ride before everything freezes up. I want a nice engine to power a really nice older FORD.

It would be so much simpler (and cheaper) just to put a 5.0 EFI in one and go from there, but I want something that no one else has and I want it fast. I always knew of the MEL (not really, but I knew there was something powerful in those old MERCS from my childhood days) and have been gathering info and studying this for about the last two years. I have finally (almost) decided how I want it built and will start gathering the bits and pieces now.

Yes, I am a detail freak and will worry myself to death about it, but what else is there to do?

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....and good to have you in the forum. I'm interested to know more about HP components such as camshafts and so on. Have you already purchased s.th. like that?

Theo
The man with the bad memory (Germany)
All stock 62 T-Bird, with resto-mod style engine bay. Mildly warmed up 390.
birds@freenet.de
Check out The (MEL) 383, 410, 430, 462 Engine Forum at http://www.network54.com/Forum/257364

During my research (and milking others of their knowledge), it seems MEL had a design flaw in their camshafts in that the billet wasn't hardened properly and there were a lot of failures there and in the valvetrain, as there was also with the FE.

So it seems, one must look to have whatever timing events ground by a specialty cam manufacturer. Holman-Moody advertises as grinding cams, but have they kept up with the latest cam technology or are they going to pull old specs off the shelf?

So, one is going to have to accept the premise that the cam itself will be fairly costly (unless you are doing a stock rebuild) but can use most of the FE valvetrain.

In my old 410, I used an ISKY cam (EE330) I think. Probably the biggest hurdle in getting a cam will be finding a core, (regrind) or a blank to get a new one.

Most large cam companies advertise custom grinding (I haven't gotten this far yet) and I understand FORD had trouble with theirs as they were not hardened sufficiently. The nice thing about a larger company is that they will be able to translate later computer generated events onto the cam rather than just copying forty year old technology.

As for a regrind, you can't increase lift, so you would have to start with a fresh blank.

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.....means that they will either have to grind on an existing blank of a popular engine or regrind your orig. cam or pop. new cam.
I seriously doubt that they are able to fabricate one single cam on a custom order basis.
I guess that there won't be any blanc available these days.
However, even with cast iron I believe that there are shops which can weld some beef on the lobes and then regrind and harden them. Modern technology makes it possible. It's just a question of $$.

Theo
The man with the bad memory (Germany)
All stock 62 T-Bird, with resto-mod style engine bay. Mildly warmed up 390.
birds@freenet.de
Check out The (MEL) 383, 410, 430, 462 Engine Forum at http://www.network54.com/Forum/257364

REFINISHING: A process by which the cam face is refinished to the same geometrical shape, however, being slightly smaller in size.

REGRINDING: Refers to an operation where a stock camshaft is modified to racing specifications. This should only be done where it is difficult to obtain new cores, as with imported cars.

This is from the ISKY catalog. My understanding is that if a present cam is regound (resurfaced) for a stock rebuild, the cam lobes are reduced in diameter, requiring the use of longer pushrods to allow for the change in geometry.

Also, there are different billet materials used for different cams, say a stock hydraulic as compared to a solid roller.

I have exchanged information with another MEL freak (well, absorbed his information mostly) that has had a custom cam ground. I promised not to mention the name of the grinder as he feels they don't really want the aggravation of custom grinds on this engine series. But, it is possible (though expensive).

Once I decide which way to go (430 compared to 462 and strokers), I will go to the source and ask for a special cam. The timing events that were hot in 1958 surely don't measure up to today's standards.




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.....you wrote:
<<<REGRINDING: Refers to an operation where a stock camshaft is modified to racing specifications. This should only be done where it is difficult to obtain new cores, as with imported cars.>>...

As you mentioned too, this can't be logical, 'cuz a stock cam can only get smaller after the regrinding job. You just can't make a race cam out of a stock stick. I can only think of that the regrind job would freshen up a worn stock cam to obtain a functional shape of the lobes and ramps when worn badly or less than preferred. Besides what you already mentioned it would also allow to change for a new set of lifters. However one should be aware that the hardened surface would have gone after the regrind as it is a pretty thin layer. I personally think that regrinding a cam is a desperate action that is only justified in situations that you have mentioned above. Such as hard to get, obsolete etc etc.
I'm to 99% sure that the rocker arm assy. is identical to the FE assy. If so, then you'd be able to compensate for the marginally different valvetrain geometriy by simply using adjustable rocker arms. This would represent a much better investment than hassling w. measuring and purchasing other push rods. These rockers are readily available as stock FoMoCo parts or you might opt for roller rockers such as for the reasonable prized Harland sharp roller rockers. In your case (HP) that would be more of a realistic option anyway.

There is no way to regrind a stock cam for race specs, at least from my little understanding. You'd have to have the oversized blank to do so.

As for the custom grind that your friend has ordered I remain sceptical. No offend intended but it's hard to believe that a acore of such does exist and that the shop won't like to earn the extra bucks that can climb up to the moon on jobs like that.

However I would like to believe that there is a core and that it hopefully will be available for this hand full of MEL crowd.

These days' cam designs are indeed more sophisticated as you mentioned. But we should keep in mind that the old cams were designed for higher compression engines and a higher octane rating. The valve phasing was usually different too. It was usually later, about 4° retarded when compared w. today's most common grinds.

What was the name of the cam blanc supplying shop again?






Theo
The man with the bad memory (Germany)
All stock 62 T-Bird, with resto-mod style engine bay. Mildly warmed up 390.
birds@freenet.de
Check out The (MEL) 383, 410, 430, 462 Engine Forum at http://www.network54.com/Forum/257364

"There is no way to regrind a stock cam for race specs, at least from my little understanding. You'd have to have the oversized blank to do so."

Think of the regrind as thus...you are changing events, whether it is lift, duration, ramp speed or whatever. You merely decrease the cam circle profile to achieve this. The cams are on a smaller circle than the factory grind. To compensate for this smaller circle, longer pushrods have to be used to get the desired valve lift. Just adding adjustible rocker arms will not correct the new geometry introduced. They are only good for maintaing proper lash in a solid setup or plunger travel in a hydraulic setup.

Rocker Arm Geometry;

http://www.mercurycapri.com/technical/engine/cam/vtg.html

"As for the custom grind that your friend has ordered I remain sceptical. No offend intended but it's hard to believe that a a core of such does exist and that the shop won't like to earn the extra bucks that can climb up to the moon on jobs like that."

Billets can be custom made. The trouble with the MEL is that early production had a lot of cam/valvetrain failure and many subsequent upgrades. Now first, you are going to have to find a cam grinder that is aware of this problem and knows how to circumvent it and finding a manufacturer who will delay production on everyday pieces that are making him money to fool with not just an out of production engine, but one that that was not very popular to begin with.

Small cam grinders may well want to do this type of work, but do they have the technology and expertise of the mega manufacturers?



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valvetrain geometry refers to the cam's base circle to rocker tip dimensions (distance). After a regrind the cam's base circle won't be excessively changed in diameter. The job is mainly done on the lobes where you'll have the most abrasion from a long years operation and where the customer is opting for a something different.
All my rebuilds were very happy w. adj. rocker arms even after milling the block and heads. Absolutely nothing bad has ever happened to the valve train assy. after such a switch. However if milling gets excessive some geometry issues might come up. Bur we're here to take measurement all the time during the planning and during the rebuilding process.

A

Theo
The man with the bad memory (Germany)
All stock 62 T-Bird, with resto-mod style engine bay. Mildly warmed up 390.
birds@freenet.de
Check out The (MEL) 383, 410, 430, 462 Engine Forum at http://www.network54.com/Forum/257364

...as for the billet custom cam I remain sceptical. The billet thing refers to a custom order w. ghrinding a billet cam core (blanc) in mind.
Billet is used to meet the metallurgy demans of a roller, which is a hrder surfaced cam.
Billet does not refer to its' assumed ability to serve as a core for camshaft manufactoring from scratch.

I can't imagine how a raw billet bar can be mashined with a gear incorporated.
IMO you'll have to cast a blnc first no matter what material you prefer to use. Those custom ordered billet cams are mostly made from popular engine stocked blancs.
That's my assumption so far


Theo
The man with the bad memory (Germany)
All stock 62 T-Bird, with resto-mod style engine bay. Mildly warmed up 390.
birds@freenet.de
Check out The (MEL) 383, 410, 430, 462 Engine Forum at http://www.network54.com/Forum/257364

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/03/quicktips/index.shtml

I Am Presently Looking For Any Factory/Aftermarket Parts/Information Regarding The MEL Engine Series

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BTW, you don't need to have any special boring or honing device to do a MEL w/o torque plates.
All it needs is a mashinist who registers the boring bar far enough in the bore. The boring bar won't bother if the bore is opened on top. It will spin on its' way carelessly. Honing is even easier, since the honing bar works w. an X. The stone bars are stiff and won't bother eather.
If you use those special canted bore and honing plates then no problems at all IMO.

Theo
The man with the bad memory (Germany)
All stock 62 T-Bird, with resto-mod style engine bay. Mildly warmed up 390.
birds@freenet.de
Check out The (MEL) 383, 410, 430, 462 Engine Forum at http://www.network54.com/Forum/257364